We will not be able to advance unless there is qualitative change to our politics. Even after 5 August (mass-uprising) if we return to the old politics, it will be most unfortunate. The old politics holds no welfare for the people or the nation
Barrister Abdur Razzak, senior lawyer of the Supreme Court, was assistant secretary general of Jamaat-e-Islami and later AB Party’s chief advisor. In an interview with Prothom Alo’s Monzurul Islam, he talks about his leaving the country and subsequent return, role of the judiciary, differences between BNP and Jamaat, the state of politics in the country, the election, and Bangladesh-India relations.
Abdur Razzak: The Awami League government first tried to implicate me in the killing of the army officers at Pilkhana. Fortunately, the judiciary was still independent at the time and so the government’s attempt to confiscate my passport failed and I was even granted anticipatory bail. I then took on responsibility as the legal counsel of Jamaat-e-Islami leaders at the International Crimes Tribunal. I was under police surveillance round the clock at that time. The police would keep me under watch at the court, my chamber, my house, even when I attended any social event. It was sheer harassment. But no steps had been taken to arrest me till then.
Abdul Quader Molla was hanged on the night of 12 December 2013. Tension prevailed all over. The opposition had boycotted the election. The government was heading towards a one-sided election (5 January 2014). Then one day I was told that it would not be safe for me to stay at home, that I could be arrested at any time. I stayed away from home for two nights. The court was closed at the time and I didn’t have much work. So I decided to use this time to pay a two-week visit to London. I started for London on 17 December and reached on the 18th. It was on that day I learnt that a case had been filed against me. They said I had hurled an explosive at the police on 18 December. The police turned up at my house that day or the next.
Then I learnt through political sources and diplomatic sources that a plan had been made to arrest me. A presidium member of Awami League said their leader (Sheikh Hasina) had given her “clearance” to arrest Barrister Abdur Razzak. I learnt the same from diplomatic sources. My friends and relatives advised I stay away from the country and so I didn’t return. I had gone for two weeks and had to stay for 11 years.
Abdur Razzak: The judiciary is an extremely important organ of the state. The benchmark of a civilised country is how independent its judiciary is. When Awami League came to power in 1996, the judiciary was more or less independent, even though they did interfere to an extent. But for most of the time since Awami League came to power in 2009, the judiciary was not free. The judiciary was completely under the executive. It did not matter what the law contained. The court would rule in accordance to instructions from above. Even if there had been 50 to 60 per cent independence of the judiciary, I am convinced that many would not have had to leave the country, and I too would not have had to stay away for 11 years.
Prothom Alo :
What are your views about the state of the judiciary at present?
Abdur Razzak: Two things must be kept in consideration here. One is that the judiciary had been completely destroyed during the past government. This happened in two ways. One was by politicisation. Education, knowledge, honesty, integrity — none of these was taken into consideration when appointing judges (to the Supreme Court). The main qualification was how loyal they were to the party. If a judge understands that he has been made judge despite not having the qualifications, he has no alternative but to remain loyal to the ruling party.
Also, in the matter of important cases, the government would issue orders. This was an unfortunate chapter for the judiciary. We have ventured on a fresh start now. All this cannot be fixed overnight. But I am optimistic.
Prothom Alo :
You had been the assistant secretary general of Jamaat-e-Islami. Many would see you as the liberal element or reformist in Jamaat. But in 2019, while still out of the country, you resigned from the party. Could you tell us about this?
Abdur Razzak: There is no practice of resignation in Jamaat-e-Islami. A few may have resigned, but all in a very hush-hush manner. I was with Jamaat for a long 33 years. And so I decided that the party people should know why I had resigned. Prothom Alo and a few other newspapers at the time had published several reports on why I had resigned. I had said what I needed to say at the time, I do not want to bring it up again.
Abdur Razzak: We do not see anything like that, but Jamaat’s leadership has changed. Relatively younger people, new faces have come to leadership. They are speaking out. Many of them are learned and knowledgeable. I hope that they guide Jamaat on the right path.
Prothom Alo :
In 2019 you had told Prothom Alo that Jamaat had become hated by the people. You had also advised the central leadership to dissolve Jamaat-e-Islami. In these changed circumstances, what is your assessment of Jamaat?
Abdur Razzak: The role of Jamaat and its student organisation at present is laudable. Those who are in the know, realise how Jamaat played a role behind the scenes in the anti-discrimination movement. And that is why we saw that the Jamaat amir was given much importance at the first meeting held (5 August) by the army chief. Jamaat is still consulted on national issues.
I hope that Jamaat will play an even better role and will work for the welfare of the country, the nation. After all, there is no party as disciplined as Jamaat in South Asia. So its massive work force must be put to use. I hope the Jamaat leaders are able to do so.
Abdur Razzak: That is because Bangladesh’s Jamaat-e-Islami had to go through a test of fire, which the Jamaat of Pakistan or India did not. Other than in Egypt, no party had to face such testing times. During the rule of the past government, 5 out of 10 of Jamaat’s top leaders were hanged. Even then Jamaat has survived.
Prothom Alo :
You mentioned Egypt, but there is no Jamaat there. They have the Muslim Brotherhood. Does Jamaat have links with Muslim Brotherhood?
Abdur Razzak: While Jamaat has no organisational links with Muslim Brotherhood, it has ideological ties and that is not just today. Back in 1928 Hasan Al Banna began Muslim Brotherhood or Ikhwanul Muslimin. In 1941 Maulana Moududi framed Jamaat-e-Islami. Since then there has been an understanding between the two parties. They consider each other to be brothers. Some other such movements emerged too — AK Party (Justice and Development Party) in Turkey, Ennahda in Tunisia and Justice and Development Party in Morocco. Jamaat has good relations with these parties too.
Bangladesh is a moderate Muslim country. Extremism will never rear its head here. There may be people who believe in such ideology, such as Bangla Bhai, but India should understand that the majority of the people will never give place to extremism
Abdur Razzak: I was not in any organisational post of AB Party, I was their chief advisor. Various parties have many such advisors. Anyway, I resigned due to certain matters of principle which I do not want to discuss.
Prothom Alo :
According to media reports, AB Party was your brainchild and you were the chief patron of the party.
Abdur Razzak: I saw those reports too and that was why news of my resignation was also highlighted in the media. I had wanted a centre right political party with Islamic reference. That would be effective in Bangladesh. Jamaat is working to establish an Islamic state. But Bangladesh needs a centre right political party that draws inspiration from Islam but does not speak of establishing an Islamic state. That was my vision.
Prothom Alo :
Do you still see the need of such a political party?
Abdur Razzak: Such a party is extremely necessary, a party that is inclusive and takes everyone along.
Prothom Alo :
Is there any such party in Bangladesh?
Abdur Razzak: I do not see any such party at the moment, but such a party may rise in the future.
Prothom Alo :
Will you return to Jamaat or join up with a new initiative, or stay away from politics?
Abdur Razzak: I am a lawyer. Allah SWT has given me the fortune of working on many big cases. I am comfortable in the legal sphere. I returned to the country after 11 years and went to the court. I felt I was returning to my true calling. I want to remain in the legal arena. But in countries where there is democracy, political and law merge at one point of time.
Abdur Razzak: It is only natural for there to be differences of opinion between parties. True democracy cannot flourish otherwise. But in the Bangladesh context, the political parties should be in consensus on three issues.
Firstly, independence and sovereignty: there can under no circumstance be any compromise on independence and sovereignty. BNP, Jatiya Party, Islamic parties or left parties all must make a commitment about this. The second is democracy. And the third is the rule of law and independence of the judiciary. I feel BNP and Jamaat believe in these three elements. Even so, there are bound to be differences in politics.
Also, with Awami League out of the political fray, it is nothing unnatural for BNP and Jamaat to consider each other to be opponents. I feel this is healthy politics for Bangladesh, if we maintain those three matters.
It also must be kept in mind that politicians should have a sense of responsibility. There was a time when the standard of politics here was very high. But we have fallen far down from there. A political trend of physically removing the opponent emerged. We must leave that and revert to our old heritage. Is this possible?
I feel it is possible. We must try to bring about qualitative change to politics. If the students take any initiative, that will certain bode well for us. But we will not be able to advance unless there is qualitative change to our politics. Even after 5 August (mass-uprising) if we return to the old politics, it will be most unfortunate. The old politics holds no welfare for the people or the nation.
Abdur Razzak: I do not believe in such preconditions. It will not be right for any party to try to go to power in a hurry. It must be kept in mind, no government is the last government. And so before the election, a national consensus on reforms should be met.
Prothom Alo :
On behalf of Jamaat-e-Islami you would maintain contact with foreign quarters, look after international relations. Given that experience, how do you view Bangladesh-India relations?
Abdur Razzak: Ideally, Bangladesh and India could have had relations like relations between the US and UK. But Bangladesh-India relations are not like that. The fact remains that Bangladesh was unable to get what was due from India. Secondly, by lending one-sided support to the past fascist regime, India had a role in destroying our democracy.
Relations between the government of one country and the government or another do not last long. The relations should be people to people. No one went from house to house in Bangladesh telling people to be anti-Indian. But people made their own assessments. Bangladesh may have some minor faults, but most of the faults lie with India. We do not want anti-India feelings to be exacerbated here and for anyone to exploit that to go to power. But India has to play the major role in this matter.
Prothom Alo :
According to the Indian authorities, rise of Islamic extremism in Bangladesh is a matter of concern for them. How do you view that?
Abdur Razzak: This is an unfounded concern. It must be kept in mind that Bangladesh is a moderate Muslim country. Extremism will never rear its head here. There may be people who believe in such ideology, such as Bangla Bhai, but India should understand that the majority of the people will never give place to extremism.
Prothom Alo :
If Congress comes to power in India instead of BJP, will there be a difference in the stance?
Abdur Razzak: This did not happen in the past and will not in the future. The reason behind this is the “deep state” those control power behind the scenes. It makes no difference who is elected to government.
Prothom Alo :
Is there a “deep state” that control things in Bangladesh?
Abdur Razzak: There is a deep state in all countries and this will remain so. We need strong leadership. Such leadership must be created.
Prothom Alo :
Thank you for your time.
Abdur Razzak: Thank you very much too.
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